+4 votes
by (160 points)
I am in the UK, so may not be able to make it to the Live sessions on YouTube, so I thought I would post here.

I have begun meditation using the How To Meditate booklet and am starting with sitting meditation and noting.

My question is when I am noting “pain, pain, pain’ I try to see it clearly for what it is without any emotional attachments to it. I find that after a little while, the pain, or whatever I am feeling at the time, dissipates completely to a point where I cant think of it anymore, almost like it fades away to nothing.

Is this a desired result of meditation, or is this my mind trying to protect itself and burying the pain I am feeling to store for another time? I know consciously the pain is still there but I cant seem to see it anymore.
by (160 points)
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer Nick! Your answer is very encouraging and I have taken alot from it. Am I correct in saying that pain (in this instance it is emotional pain instead of bodily) never truly 'goes away' as pain (and all feelings) are transient experiences that we must not attach ourselves to?

Very good advise about noting wondering/curious/analysing - I will take this on board.
by (340 points)
Hey Charlette (sorry for the misspelling before!),

I am glad the advice was helpful for you.

I think you are spot on when you say that pain and all feelings (and I would add all of the 5 aggregates that make up our experience which includes body, feeling, perception, thoughts and other mental formations, and consciousness) are transient. and we should not attach ourselves to them. The Buddha says exactly this in the Annata-lakkhana Sutta (https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.059.mend.html) and goes as far as saying that the 5 aggregates subject to clinging ARE suffering in the Satipatthana Sutta (http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/mahasati15.htm).

When you said that pain never truly "goes away", in terms of this practice, we can observe the arising and passing of the uncomfortable sensations that we label as pain, so on a conventional level we can say that pain does in fact go away.

On a more ultimate level, pain is a concept that we fabricate to describe a bunch of transient, unpleasant sensations. So, I suppose you could say that pain doesnt go away, rather the sensations that make up the pain go away. But in terms of this practice I wouldn't analyze these concepts in meditation too deeply or for too long.  I would suggest just labeling the sensations as "pain" until the sensations go away or the mind is aware of another object to note.

Nick

1 Answer

+2 votes
by (340 points)
Hi Charlotte,

It sounds like you are following the practice instructions perfectly. I would continue to note and observe the arising and passing of phenomenon (in this case, pain). The more you meditate, the more you will see that no experience exists outside of the conscious knowing of an object (which includes pain). So when you no longer can observe pain, that pain is gone, completely, until conditions arise for the pain to return (i.e a physical stimulus and sensation of pain and the mind knowing it). So to answer your question, I do not think that the mind is burying or ignoring the pain, the conditions required for  the pain to arise simply don't exist anymore in that moment of disappearance. You can compare this with the rising and falling of the abdomen. When you note "rising", the conditions are present for knowing of the rising of the abdomen. When your finish noting "rising", those conditions have ceased and the rising is gone, completely, just like the sensations of pain.

You should also take the opportunity to note the mind state of "wondering" or "curious" or "analyzing" or something similar if you find yourself wondering if the pain is still present.

Sincerely,

Nick
by (160 points)
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer Nick! Your answer is very encouraging and I have taken alot from it. Am I correct in saying that pain (in this instance it is emotional pain instead of bodily) never truly 'goes away' as pain (and all feelings) are transient experiences that we must not attach ourselves to?

Very good advise about noting wondering/curious/analysing - I will take this on board.
by (340 points)
Hey Charlette (sorry for the misspelling before!),

I am glad the advice was helpful for you.

I think you are spot on when you say that pain and all feelings (and I would add all of the 5 aggregates that make up our experience which includes body, feeling, perception, thoughts and other mental formations, and consciousness) are transient. and we should not attach ourselves to them. The Buddha says exactly this in the Annata-lakkhana Sutta (https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.059.mend.html) and goes as far as saying that the 5 aggregates subject to clinging ARE suffering in the Satipatthana Sutta (http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/mahasati15.htm).

When you said that pain never truly "goes away", in terms of this practice, we can observe the arising and passing of the uncomfortable sensations that we label as pain, so on a conventional level we can say that pain does in fact go away.

On a more ultimate level, pain is a concept that we fabricate to describe a bunch of transient, unpleasant sensations. So, I suppose you could say that pain doesnt go away, rather the sensations that make up the pain go away. But in terms of this practice I wouldn't analyze these concepts in meditation too deeply or for too long.  I would suggest just labeling the sensations as "pain" until the sensations go away or the mind is aware of another object to note.

Nick
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